Here in the San Juans, we citizens can get in frightening confrontations with the police for going on Christmas hayrides ... or for going 28 mph in a 25 mph zone.
Here in the San Juans, we citizens can be criminally prosecuted for land use violations.
Here in the San Juans, we citizens are subject to community outrage if we rent to the wrong tenant.
Here in the San Juans, we citizens are subject to County and State investigations ... and community outrage ... for cutting too much brush along the shoreline.
Here in the San Juans, we have proposed laws that may make it illegal for anyone to cut grass or trim bushes near anything critical ... and nearly everything will be critical.
And despite all that ... here in the San Juans, we can buy and sell drugs with impunity ... reportedly right on Jackson Beach.
We worry about this place and fear that our ecosystem is endangered ... but it also seems to me as if all our efforts to protect the San Juans ... have already ruined it.
This county needs to take a real hard look at itself in 2014.
Happy New Year!
Everything here is way more complicated than it should be. It's hard to live here, not just because it's hard to make a living here. It's hard to live here because the government and the "community", as TH puts it, make it hard to live here.
ReplyDeleteAll the people who were upset with Gordy for renting to jackbooted thugs, where is your outrage over Felix? I guess imaginary jackbooted thugs are better targets for criticism than actual jackbooted thugs. Rob Nou has to go. He cannot control his own department, just like every other manager and elected official in the county.
ReplyDeleteMany laws here are pointless red tape. You don't have to hurt anything or anyone to be in trouble. You just have to violate the red tape rules of the bureaucracy. On top of that, you also have to watch your back because your Friends and neighbors will gladly jump you and beat the daylights out of you if do anything they find unacceptable.
ReplyDeleteThis is a mean and nasty place. Much has been written about "incivility" directed toward public figures, but I'm not talking about that. Public figures are public by choice. I'm talking about these islands being mean to private citizens going about their daily routine who just want to be left alone. This is not the place to live if you want to be left alone. Everyone messes with you.
@12:35
ReplyDeleteCouldn't agree more. I'd like to know the same thing. Where is the Rick Hughes moderated community meeting about Menjivar with Rob Nou in attendance?
http://www.salishrocks.org/page.php?type=item&item_handle=1388562173&menu_type=forum&id=1388589737_78046&return=32
ReplyDeleteI wonder if any of the commissioners of the Port Of Lopez who approved a private citizen using Port property without compensation of any kind gave a flying fig that by doing so, they are probably committing a crime.
@ 12:35 AM
ReplyDeleteJust give it a rest and stop your false manipulation right now. If you want to attract a police state, you get what you ask for. Nearly everyone who understands the long term negative implications of the DHS deal is equally appalled by the pattern of behavior exhibited by the Sheriff. These are not different issues. They are symptomatic of the same issues.
We've bought into a protection racket and now we are paying the price.
Jackson's beach is an absolute outrage. Nou and Randy should be shown the eastbound ferry on that one alone.
ReplyDelete@8:37
ReplyDelete"If you want to attract a police state?" Wow, you're still inebriated from last night. The police state we have to worry about is our county and the state. The feds didn't traumatize a bunch of kids so badly that they now hide from the mere sight of a patrol car. The feds didn't prosecute an Orcas Islander for being too poor to live in a permitted home. The feds won't arrest us for mowing our lawn.
"False manipulation?" I suppose you think you're okay with your "truthful" manipulation.
Wow, you Gordy haters really are OCD about him.
I think there would be a lot more comments concerning the Christmas Eve fiasco if there wasn't a real fear of retaliation.
ReplyDeleteSheriff Nou...as others are saying...needs to go. As soon as possible. He just plain WANTS bad things to happen and exaggerates petty occurrences whenever possible...presumably to justify his version of "public safety" and tax dollars poorly spent.
http://youtu.be/4LkMweOVOOI
ReplyDeleteDecember 30, 2013 at 9:46 PM
I pulled this up from the last TH post because I find it important and fascinating and there is Kevin Ranker struggling w/it all.
Thank you to the poster who shared this!
As unpopular as it will be on this site I will say that I fully support Officer Menjivar.
ReplyDeleteStop complaining about those that enforce the law, that is their job, and the law applies to us all, even the local yokels.
Those of you who want to complain about drug trafficking and want the police to just focus on that I would remind you of the yokel's kid who ran over the tourist on Lopez, killing one and maiming another while bombing around at 80+mph, but what am I thinking, they were "tourist" so fuck them right?
And of course most of you would be the same yokels to rant if Menjivar would have ignored the hay-ride and it later got into an accident with kids hurt.
Same yokels who "fear" big government but vote overwhelmingly for big-government liberal democrats and then scratch your pea-brains and wonder why you keep getting more and more big government.
Same yokels who say you hate big government but want Rick Hughes to wave a magic wand and bring business to the islands (well, the right kind of business, not "tourist" business because fuck them right?)Some magical business that yokels with no education or skill can apparently earn $35/hr at.
Same yokels who "fear" big government but praise Gordy-I-lead-a-rural-resistance hypocrite for renting his god-given right of a business to the epitome of big scary government.
If you don't like the laws, take it up with those who have the authority to make them and give us all a break with the "fear of reprisal" non-sense, what's going to happen? Rick Hughes going to come over and shoot your dog? lol.
It is the islanders who rat on each other, sue each other, gossip about one another, and are generally despicable to each other.
@1:31
ReplyDeleteThere are too many laws. We also have some incompetent people enforcing the law, so I'm not going to let them off the hook. Our sheriff's department is not something to be proud of.
Because of the back-biting nasty inclination of islanders, being despicable to one another has been institutionalized in government, and our local government does a very good job at carrying out that role.
The San Juans aren't known for much of anything except the view. Other than that, we don't have very much to offer. We aren't known for our neighborliness. The art scene here is mostly cheap crafts. We have third-class technology, and I don't think our schools even teach programming. Generally speaking, the music scene reminds me of a bad bar-mitzvah.
Pretending we are pure-hearted global saviors is what we do best.
I've been here about ten years, but I have been generally in agreement that "MAD" (Mutually Assured Destruction) was working well most of that time. (The; you rat me out, I rat you out.)
ReplyDeleteWithin legislative districts that are completely overwhelmed with rules, many open to vague interpretation by officialdom, and SJC is certainly one of these, the MAD seems the only viable system that can work.
HOWEVER, it now seems to me, we have just enough nut heads and at least one really destructive organization that continue now to mess up the balance needed for MAD to work properly.
Throw in some extra overzealous officials and things start to get seriously out of whack.
Can there be voter revolt? Can there be a massive change of direction by newly elected County leaders? (I won't call you Ishmael.)
Nearly everyone who understands the long term negative implications of the DHS deal . . . .
ReplyDeleteHysterical. Now the worshippers of the Holy Downtown Core are the only ones who UNDERSTAND.
And of course most of you would be the same yokels to rant if Menjivar would have ignored the hay-ride and it later got into an accident with kids hurt.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with this comment--was there a video of his approach? Because it does seem that unrestrained people on a float could be a problem. Did the deputy approach the man decently? Did the man bitch and rant and rave for being stopped? I always like to hear both sides. Who was there? Anyone?
The letters by Menjivar and Nou in the Island Guardian are very disturbing to me. They offer troubling insights into the psyche of these two men that are not reassuring. These men do not understand nuances. For them, there is only one way to handle things, and they are self-possessed with the certainty of their position. They are defensive and self-righteousness in the way that makes law enforcement believe they are infallible and omnipotent.
ReplyDeleteLordy. These men have lost their perspective. I don't care how qualified these men think they are, they have lost touch with reality. They are dangerous. I don't know how Rob Nou can tackle crime in this county when he can't even handle his own officers.
It's Menjivar's way or the highway by the looks of it. According to him, he is more qualified than any of us, so obviously he's always right. He sounds like the Friends, Ecology, and CD&P. We all have to be controlled by those who know better than we do.
An apology, or mia culpa, would have gone a lot further than the crap they're putting out. Like Stephanie Buffum after the rock and candle meeting, they're beating their chest and circling the wagons instead. Bad move. Very bad move.
@1:31
ReplyDeleteThe only incompetent people I see around here are the yokels.
Being an officer is a commitment to listening to dumb fucks run their mouth about evetyrhing under the sun, most of which they know nothing about.
Additionally, please bless us with your brilliance in public service, get off the sideline, get in the game, and run for office; otherwise you're just a yokel with a 67 i.q. who's convinced agenda 21 is coming for you.
Of course my rant was @ 2:13 not 1:31...
ReplyDelete@5:11
ReplyDeleteOfficer Menjivar IS more qualified and knowledgeable than you.
Do you wish for officers who pick and choose which laws they will enforce? Against those they wish to?
Listening to fucktards all day tell you who they (think) they are, who their daddy is, how they've been here for x amount of yeats...omfg we don't pay them enough.
Run on to the next immaginary crisis please.
@5:35
ReplyDeleteNo he isn't, and by the looks of it, you have the same temperament and general respect for "yokels." Amazing you got the time code right this time (@5:11) but that's all you got right. The point is that officers here DO pick and choose which laws to enforce, and they seem to think that minor traffic infringements and serving search warrants on people living in ag buildings is more important than serious crimes. Or how about Menjivar's red-light flashing and zooming 50 miles an hour past school kids in order to give someone a ticket for barely going over the 25mph speed limit.
You're an idiot, so move on to your next imaginary point, because you certainly are missing the real points being made. Not even your profanity is eloquent.
@5:46
ReplyDeleteSo you are one of the "trolls" who think correcting grammar and time is relevant.
This community runs from one immaginary crisis to the next; this week it's Menjivar, last it was Mar Vista, next week who knows.
Menjivar put forth his education, experience, and knowledge to highlight his qualificatuons and commitment to uphold the law, sorry he doesn't think goofs who think San Juan County is not a part of Washington State, or the U.S. should not be held accountable to laws established by duly elected officials.
Again, take your blather to your elected official (watch out for the reprisal....oohhh nooo), better yet, bless us all with your brilliance and run fir office or apply for County jobs (with your own incredible education and experience this should be no problem).
@5:58
ReplyDeleteYou're nothing if not redundant. I can't wait for you to tell say "bless me with your brilliance" again. I think we heard you the first thousand times.
You're such an appalling cretin you don't understand that Mar Vista and Menjivar represent the same problem and you're firmly on both sides of the issue. Both are law enforcement gone wild despite there being no victim. You say Mar Vista was an imaginary crisis, but you think Christmas rides deserve the attention of law enforcement plus back up.
I guess in your world Ecology and CD&P running all over Mar Vista represent people who know what they're talking about, just like Menjivar, and we should just listen to them. After all, they're trained and smart and us yokels just run our fucking mouths off to the gods who oversee us and we should pay them more than the extravagant salaries we already pay them, according to you.
I don't know if I can bless you with my brilliance because I think you are resistant to anything resembling intelligence, but you've certainly blessed us with your ignorance and irrelevancies.
Go ahead, run your fucking mouth off some more, fellow yokel.
Wow, anger like that only comes from an empty soul whose life is one big lie, one scam after another, one abusive relationship after another, children gone astray...a true yokel.
ReplyDeleteI believe, we of the TH need to be thoughtful, clever, funny and not have this one-on-one potty mouth waste of time that goes on too often here and sadly diminishes the incredible positive impact the TH needs to continue with.
ReplyDeleteDrug sales on Jackson's Beach SJI? Well, no kidding. Again, the Port of Friday Harbor shows us their rapier like attack on this problem. (It's been common knowledge for years!)
The Port has certainly proved as unsuccessful here as with other issues facing needed and prompt resolution.
Yeah, come on, knock off all this fucking potty mouth shit. If you don't, someone anonymous commenter will use their comments and slap your dick and titties in the damn mud. Shit man.
ReplyDeleteOh shit, it isn't Friday. Well, this level of bickering made me think, awwww..... Dorf-it.
Ca-fuckin'piche?
I'm guessing that most of the normal humans are out enjoying the holidays with other humans and only a few Grinches remain to call each other yokels. If this is a clue about the future of 2014, I'm depressed.
ReplyDeleteWhy is everyone here called "anonymous"? Aren't people willing to own up to their comments? i don't get this whole discussion!!
ReplyDeleteJenepher Reeves
jenepher.reeves@gmail.com
I have been on multiple agency-assist calls this last year with the Sheriff's deputies on Orcas, and I have found them to be quite professional, caring, and effective at their jobs.
ReplyDeleteI have seen them respectfully defuse violent situations, and get people the help they needed.
The deputies I have interacted with have certainly not been "jackbooted thugs".
What sort of sheriff let's a deputy write a letter to the editor about an incident that is under investigation. You can't fix stupid.
ReplyDeleteUpdate.
ReplyDeleteThe helicopters are grey, not black.
Please note this.
@Jenepher,
ReplyDeleteWelcome to the Heron, you're name is spelled wrong.
Also, we are all very scared of "reprisal" - Rick Hughes shoots peoples dogs who say things he doesn't agree with, and, we need to know how long you've been on the islands because that seems to be very relevant.
Agenda 21 is being foeced upon us by the County, Felix Menjivar is one of their enforcers.
Also, we are opposed to "big" government, unless they pay us large sums of cash.
And @8:58 still spells as well as s/he thinks.
ReplyDeleteFee - fee loses to Nou in 2010. Then he loses his bid for reelection to FH town council in 2013. With his anger management issues could this be a subconscious effort to take out Nou as payback?
ReplyDelete@8:43 and @9:23
ReplyDeleteWe have problems throughout our entire legal and enforcement system. The sheriff. The prosecutor. The legislature that makes the laws.
We have two kinds of leadership in those areas: bad leadership or no leadership.
Brain E. - what's your feeling about the specific situation at hand? Voicing general support for law enforcement is one thing, and I realize an investigation is under way, but are you saying you don't have any concerns about the Christmas hayride situation, or any worries about the way the sheriff and Menjivar are handling this situation? I have to agree with the comment that writing letters to the paper when you are supposedly conducting or under investigation seems improper.
Maybe the county should put Felix Menjivar in charge of enforcing the grass cutting and tree trimming! That would be right up the little jack booted thug's alley! Menjivar is a menace. He is out of control and drunk on power. Will Rob Nou do anything about this little proto-fascist? No way. Nou will stick his head in the sand and wait till the fuss blows over. Menjivar should be fired, and those whose rights he violated on Christmas eve should sue him and the County into the ground.
ReplyDelete@6:44
ReplyDeleteAnd specifically, what rights were violated?
Just curious. I read the official report, the hysterical Alderton-esque blather by Norris won't-let-facts-get-in-the-way-of-sensationalism- Palmer. Talk about a blowhard. Guy couldn't get the name of any reference correct. Timeframe off by orders of magnitude. And somehow he is now a reliable witness.
Now you suggest using the county? For what again?
Let me give them one piece of advice, if you do sue, ask CAPR who ther lawyer is and be sure to avoid them sonde all they seem to do is lose, in spectacular fashion.
Theorem 2 of the Internetz...
ReplyDelete"All Blog Threads greater than 200 posts devolve into ad-hominem attacks, with a probability approaching 1 of violation of Godwin's Law".
Godwin's Law huh, don't forget Ocham's Razor, or the Prime Directive.
ReplyDeleteJust wondering if the orcas trash in the woods thingy ever got reopened?
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to see if the children of orcas will once again be able to paw through piles of garbage in hopes of a better tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteWell. I guess there will not be anymore community 4th of July parades allowed in San Juan County with flatbed trailers and pickup trucks. Because we would be breaking the law.
So much for freedom and tradition.
@10:26
ReplyDeleteYour illogical conclusion is, well, stupid. Bout like saying, they will be coming for your spaghetti next.
The parade is an organized event with streets blocked off
What happened New Year's Eve was a local yokel doing what he did at night.
Not the same. But ok go ahead and make general jumps to conclusions.
If everyone is so concerned about the "drug problem" rather than lash out at the police, how bout some anger at the scumbags that make and import the shit. Yeah. Some "long time islanders" are the douches responsible for this, make no mistake.
Lovel Pratt for Sheriff.
We now know that 99% of these comments are being generated by an Automated Idiot (AI) routine that generates infinite permutations from a set of simple guidelines provided by a small loud group of marching munchkins known as the Committee For Stability in Government.
ReplyDeleteSome of you should calm down. Many of the current anonymous comments on "In Trouble In The San Juans" show more cowardice than good judgment.
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised at the level of genuinely filthy language submitted to the TH that doesn't even pretend to serve any purpose. (If you are offended by my opinion and proud of what you have posted, put your name on it). While you're at it, why not try for a little reason in your attacks on the sheriff and the department.
How would YOU like to be treated like this? It's ironic that the supposed defense of anonymous ranting is fear of reprisals. It probably makes more sense to fear reprisals from current TH commentators who sound more hateful than anyone you are blasting.
Thank you Brian, Jenepher,and David for putting your names on your posts. The Trojan Heron produces thoughtful, well-researched, and in-depth writing on critically important topics. It deserves better than anonymous obscenity and irresponsible name-calling.
I thought my full name would show up automatically on my last post. The signature should be Janice Peterson.
ReplyDeleteThanks Janice :-)
ReplyDeleteRob Nou's reaction to the Christmas Eve Menjivar incident reminds me of the questions asked by Epicurus about why evil exists.
ReplyDeleteIf Nou is willing but unable to control Menjivar, then he is not in control of his department.
If Nou is able but unwilling to control Menjivar, then Nou is just as bad.
If Nou is neither willing nor able to control Menjivar, then why call him sheriff?
Btw, great discussion going on at FB Rant & Rave about this incident. Unlike here, unfortunately, there are some very good comments and analysis by the citizenry. I love the Heron, but the trolls have been out in force lately.
Unfortunately, the letters by Nou and Menjivar indicate to me that you can have all the training in the world, be in a position of tremendous authority, but have zero common sense. The paucity of common sense extends from the incident to the letters. I agree with the commenters who ask why the officer involved and his boss are writing letters during an investigation.
ReplyDeleteTO: January 2, 2014 at 7:04 AM
ReplyDeleteHow can you the "official report" when it hasn't even been released yet? You must be within the department!
The point is NOT that Felix pulled themover for a traffic discrepancy. The point IS how he handled it.
And neither Rob Nou nor Felix addressed how the stop was HANDLED. Felix needs some anger management and de-escalation training, pure and simple.
When they BOTH miss the point of community policing, that's sad...so sad.
Janice. You are right that the potty mouthing serves no purpose and detracts from the forum. Thanks for your insistence that the ka bash be put on it.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I think tthat many feel anonymity is required -- both because how the County operates generally and on the specifics of the event now under scruitiny. The irony is that the potty mouthed anonymous ruin it for the legitimately anonymous. But we know that already.
I add my concern -- and to some extent criticism -- that Nou's letter is fairly tone deaf. It is not in dispute that driving without tail lights is a violation. The question is one of response. Both Menjivar and Nou's.
Menjivar is a hothead and by all accounts handled the situation deploreably. Nou did not do himself any favors by pretty much digging in and saying you need taillights and if you don't have them it is fair game to terrorize the perpetrator.
I am also concerned that Menjivar's wife's initial statement might be true that Menjivar routinely audio and videotapes In a clandestine fashion his interactions with the public. If this is tree it is a violation of state wiretapping laws. If it is not tree it is ample warning to Nou that he needs to tell his deputies that they should not comment on the incident. That seems pretty elementary.
People here are sick of bad service and worse management from highly paid public employees. It would be so much better if we had an adult in the room who just would tell Menjivar not to comment, investigate, and THEN comment on how it all went down. Right now, Nou has the cart before the horse.
Actually, I can handle some profanity, the occasional F-bomb, etc.
ReplyDeleteWhat is offensive to me is the rush to judgment of this law enforcement officer, the trial in the media.
That is truly repulsive.
Disgusting.
More disgusting and offensive than any swear word or personal insult.
Anyone concerned about a rush to judgment should be concerned about the officer's rush to judgment. This isn't a good cop having a bad day. This is pure Felix. This is his pattern. The letter he wrote also is his pattern. There has been plenty of evidence compiled about this officer over the years. The Christmas Eve events are just the cherry on top.
ReplyDelete"When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty. It may not sound nice to some bunch of little old ladies at an afternoon tea party, but it helps my soldiers to remember. You can’t run an army without profanity."
ReplyDelete- George Patton
Stop crying about some f-bombs, it is a reflection of the level of disgust many feel regarding any given situation.
My disgust centers around the general duplicity and outright un-reasonableness so many in this county, and especially this blog, have toward many issues.
Every County department is not "out of control" not the people that work there.
Most are good people trying to do the best they can with the laws passed by the council YOU voted in.
Not every godamn issue is CONSPIRACY, it's usually just bad law-so fix the law and stop maligning those that have to work with it.
The Police have hard jobs, they have to listen to the locals rant and rave everyday about how and why the law shouldn't apply to them, and for those that live on San Juan the McCutchin clan is a constant presence in our legal system, so I will side with Felix.
And, so many times someone proposes something, regardless what it is, this blog comes to life with haters and nay-sayers,well, like it was said before try getting out from behind your anonymous blog and put forward YOUR ideas, try SUPPORTING something not just tearing it down.
And most importantly, let's get some perspective, jack-booted thugs rounded up 6 million jews and put them in gas chambers, Felix made a traffic - stop-get a grip.
@6:57
ReplyDeleteGeorge Patton, Nazis, conspiracies? I'm surprised you didn't throw in the Pope too. You are as wrong as you are out of control. The police have hard jobs? Here? Doing what exactly? Next you'll be saying that Public Works have hard jobs. Maybe you can bless us with your brilliance and explain some of your assertions instead of just repeating them. What do our police do all day that make their life so very complicated and hard? Is it hard to ride around in the new boats we bought them? Regale us with the competence and difficulties faced by our public employees in trying to keep us all in line.
Do tell.
We seem to annoy you, but I find you entertaining. Nothing forcing you to hang out on this blog. Start your own. Seems like you have plenty to say, even if it is the same thing over and over and over again. Maybe you can call it the "I love everything about government and I hate f@*king yokels" blog. There you can rant about giving more and more power to the government so they can lock up more and more of the yokels. Maybe you can propose pulling people over for a traffic stop and then shooting them. It's just a traffic stop, for crying out loud.
I'm sorry we irritate you, but we have a grip here already and you'd better get used to us "haters" and "naysayers" because if you don't, you'll need a lot more Patton quotes in the future.
We can't all be loving, positive, and forgiving like you.
@6:57
ReplyDeleteIf the council is bad, that doesn't automatically mean the people who enforce their laws are good.
All the people working for the police, or the county, applied for openings posted, why didn't you apply and save us all from the "idiots"?
ReplyDeleteOh right, you have to have more than a third grade education and a small amount of motivation.
Easy to sit behind a blog while collecting your disability, social security, farm subsidy, open space tax breaks, food stamps and unemployment from "Big Government" and complaining about folks in the game -tell us all how your "Active Management" is working out, and your law suits, CAPR has been getting its ass handed to it one failure after another.
Change will come from people actively involved, not active managers.
Not the old "public employees have it really hard" schtick again. Everybody's job is hard, and public employees don't labor under some special halo because they have to deal with the public. Try being a waitress.
ReplyDeletePublic employees have the best paid and most steady employment in these islands. They are privileged. Of course, some are more privileged than others. The managers get paid whopping amounts for doing incomprehensibly little. For example, take a look at any of the department heads.
Manning? Pamela Morais? How about Lincoln Borman?
@9:06
ReplyDeleteI can only imagine how difficult it is to understand the world around you when your entire thought process consists of quotes, slogans, insults, f-bombs, and repeating yourself.
Could you explain your last line to me? What do you mean by "Change will come from people actively involved, not active managers." Didn't you miss some words in there? Shouldn't that be "Active change will come from active people actively involved, not active managers?"
Being an active person yourself, can you actively explain your active slogans to me?
Certainly one of the issues is the level of fines threatened (10K a day for cutting some shrubs) and maybe jail time for someone living in the barn. Or putting kayaks in there instead of cows.
ReplyDeleteThe use of police powers, the County prosecutor, State agencies, to so freely go after "violators" is indeed a slippery slope, especially with such large consequences.
And, of course, the real problem; WE, all of us, are VIOLATORS.
MAD, (if you rat on me, I rat on you) is the only way possible for us to function here.
Don't know how it got this way, but some seem to love it.
How many vehicles here have faulty turn signals, or other lights out anyway?
Got meth?
ReplyDeleteFelix is the best cop on the force, we should all want police who enforce the law without regard to persons.
ReplyDeleteWell done Felix, not everyone on the TH is a conspiracy nut, thank you for protecting me and my family - especially from DUI perps who are the truly scary criminals.
The true problem here on the islands are not the local law enforcement or county employees; it is the outside entities and organizations that are well funded and single minded.
ReplyDeleteGroups like the FOSJ (yes, they are outsiders, every one of them), the Sierra Club, and their accomplices within thhhe MRC & CD.
Let's stop getting sidetracked with traffic stops.
@9:27
ReplyDeleteRe your comment about a good cop having a bad day. I understand your point, but some people have the view (not me) that this was a good cop having a good day. By their statements, some people, like the Sheriff, think this was a good cop doing what he was supposed to do, no badness at all. Some think Felix's record is uniformly positive. They think this is the kind of policing that we need. That's the bigger question. Do the police and our government have the right enforcement strategy and the right deployment of resources. I don't think so, especially if the record of the last year is anything to go by.
If what Menjivar did on Christmas Eve is "right" and if what happened to the Speeds is "right" then we need to redefine what's "right" in this community. The sheriff's investigation will probably turn up nothing because they will use a standard that isn't "right" in my opinion. Judged by the wrong standard, wrongs are perfectly okay.
Sorry @10:43 if I dashed your hopes. I just had to say this.
@11:20
ReplyDeleteIf a law is passed by your duly elected legislators should it not be enforced?
What other laws do you recommend our law enforcers ignore?
Felix is an excellent officer, he like every other officer deals daily with those who view all cops as the enemy, are mouthy, and antagonistic - I have a suspicion that good 'ol Mark E. Said more than just "yes officer"...
@12:02
ReplyDeleteYour question contains more than one premise so it is impossible to answer. I think we all get it that you dislike McCutchin, but being McCutchin is not illegal. Being a yokel is not illegal. By the time the situation got to the point of Menjivar being restrained by another officer, the traffic violation was just a pretext. The law that was being enforced was "driving while McCutchin." That is not the law.
You are making assumptions about McCutchin, but even if your assumption is correct, it has nothing to do with the supposed reason for the stop in the first place. Giving someone a ticket for a light being out is not what happened.
Everyone commenting is making assumptions-you assume Felix's actions reflect things about him you can't possibly know.
ReplyDeleteMy assumption favors the man who daily serves the community and protects our lives and family, it is a thankless job that deserves to be supported not sniped at by those who are basing their opinions on blogs, Facebook posts, and gossip.
@1:18
ReplyDeleteWhether it is a thankless job is arguable, but even if true, it is a pointless irrelevance. Having a thankless job doesn't make misconduct permissible. Menjivar is not the victim, but even if you want to argue that he has been victimized by yokels repeatedly in the past, even if you want to argue that McCutcheon specifically has victimized him in the past, it does not excuse Menjivar's behavior in this instance.
If Menjivar's and your feelings are so raw about past or ongoing mistreatment by yokels, than I can think of no better justification for why someone should be off the force. If a traffic stop can become payback for all the thankless insults and victimizations suffered by a "good" cop who can do no wrong, then it's time for that officer to call it a career. When a cop stops someone for a light being out, it should be about the light being out, not about a raft of emotional baggage requiring scores to be settled.
Essentially, you are saying that Menjivar is suffering from some sort of post traumatic stress disorder from dealing repeatedly with yokels. Fine. Get treatment. Go on disability. Weren't you the one making fun of people on disability in a reply to an earlier commenter? You might make fun of disability, but that's what disability is for. Go on disability, but don't be a cop anymore because you've lost it.
If Menjivar is a victim, then he needs help, not a badge and a gun.
I always liked these videos. In my opinion, it shows good police work (ultimately) in very tense situations. I wonder how our sheriff's department would handle these. It doesn't matter what the beliefs are of the people who made these videos, it's the reactions of the officers that are compelling:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N30TagPCNE4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njb6X-nmW2M
This one is good too:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKiYpsQhZsI
What misconduct?
ReplyDeleteIs there a reprimanded we are all unaware of?
Character assassination by Facebook, blog, and rumor is all you're engaged in.
Those that actually know Felix and the other officers respect and admire their hard work, just because you're not present when they deal with our local losers who like to break into homes and beat up ex-girlfriends or deal drugs doesn't mean they're all sitting around. Perhaps you should run for Sheriff and clean up the department.
@2:37
ReplyDeleteThank you for links.
Good idea for all of us to review our constitutional rights. It would be interesting to see how Felix would handle these law abiding citizens, maybe it's time for some research. Anyone know how he feels about being videotaped while on duty?
I go 30 mph in a 25mph school zone.
ReplyDeleteI get a ticket.
Somehow that is the officer's fault?
Well, at least you have stopped blaming Bush.
@6:13
ReplyDeleteNo, it's your fault, just like it's your fault when you totally miss the point. In the San Juans, Deputies can go 50mph in school zones. The law seems to apply to everyone here except to the Friends and the people who enforce the law.
@3:53
On Christmas Eve, Officer Menjivar wasn't "deal[ing] with our local losers who like to break into homes and beat up ex-girlfriends or deal drugs." It was a traffic stop of a Christmas hayride, and he turned it into something it wasn't, just as you are doing.
Finally the TH is coming home. Good comment and analysis. Keep it going.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the trolls and F-bombers will have their drinks and go to bed.
Myself, I like the question: How many lights are out on most vehicles? Many?
I just noticed our truck has no bed lights working. Maybe the last dump broke a wire. It happens. I'll fix it. But I can't fix a police person who want's to make a big deal out of my bed lights.
What "laws" should be enforced? That is a great question, and one that time has proven that not all should be. Some "laws" are immoral and just plain wrong, and we all (should) have heard about how the "just following orders" defense works out. I believe we should ALL consider much more carefully the "laws" we request, support, impose and enforce. Some very thoughtful guidance has been developed along these lines, and one very fundamental work is known as "Vices Are Not Crimes."
ReplyDeleteThe complete text of Spooner's "Vices Are Not Crimes" can be found here: http://lysanderspooner.org/node/46
ReplyDeleteOne side in power for decades?
ReplyDeleteMaking it up as they go along, and attacking everyone who dares to disagree? Gotta be the radical left.
Influx of hippie yuppies?
Californication in progress.
ReplyDeleteThere are many people who have moved here from California, that is certainly true, but from my experience, these folks are some of the most reasonable around here.
Remember, they LEFT California.
They left California AFTER they screwed it up.
ReplyDeleteRemember the left never believes their ideology is flawed, they believe it has never been implemented correctly and if they could just do what they want without opposition humanity would enter a new utopian era...it hasn't worked out so well in Russia, China, or N.Korea but again, it just wasn't implemented cocorrectly, they'll get it right the next time-promise.
Hey Krebs here's a freebee. "A VOTE FOR NOU IS A VOTE FOR MENJIVAR"
ReplyDelete@11:36am
ReplyDeleteSo true! And Utopia is going to require an almost unbelievable amount of regulations, coercion, and punishment.
Universal happiness and equality is worth any amount of misery and redistribution. Forward, comrades!
A fair number of the Californians I have seen move here are of the more leave-me-alone libertarian pursuasion, and not the sort of shrill leftists that seem to dominate our local politics.
ReplyDeleteWe should arrange some sort of exchange program with Berkeley and Santa Cruz.
Interesting writing by this person Spooner on vices.
ReplyDeleteSay one person's vice is to cut down a bunch of "Indian Paintbrush" (I don't think they cut much of that stuff, but say they did) So what?
Will it grow back? Probably.(Maybe MORE will grow back, who's to say.)
Did anyone get damaged by his action? Highly unlikely.
Will fish die? (Truly absurd DOE, & FOSJ and you know it.)
What if I said the name "Indian Paintbrush" sounds racist. Gee, we really don't want to get into that one do we? But, Casino Royal paintbrush has a nice ring to it.
So it must be a quantum leap for government to get into regulating things like paintbrush, rabbits, fir trees, and stuff like that.
Too bad there are those people who think nonsense regulations are just peachy. Roll out the vice squad, drones, gun boats, etc.
Walk a day in the shoes of Sherriff Nou you doubters. Our law enforcement rises to their calling daily knowing they could be in dangerous or uncomfortable situations.They don't make the laws, they enforce them.Who do you call for help? Who answers whether you are normal or some crazy that calls daily.Be patient with these people who serve us.
ReplyDeleteBy the way Norris Palmer is a known liar.Do you believe him? I don't.
Personally, I think someone else should walk in Sheriff Nou's shoes, and wear his uniform, and occupy his office, and wear his badge. Thanks for the suggestion @7:58.
ReplyDeleteWhat if my vice is to throw rocks at cars with FOSJ bumper-stickers?
ReplyDelete@6:02 pm. At least one of the Californians who purports to be an islander is sure still pretty active still back in CA:http://trojanherring2.blogspot.com
ReplyDeleteThanks @1:54;
ReplyDeleteWait! There's more!
http://trojanherring2.blogspot.com/search/label/Amy%20Trainer
Can't Sheriif Nou just assure us all that Felix is going to get some situation de-escalation training? What is so very difficult about THAT?
ReplyDeleteI am grateful for and would like to thank Gordy Petersen and Felix Menjivar for being strong, bold supporters of our community and our values.
ReplyDeleteGordy has extended a controversial tenancy to our customs office. As a port of entry, it is crucial to have strong border security. The fringe element ei continue to whine about big brother and all that, but honestly, it's good to know we have a solid law enforcement presence in our community.
Thank you to Felix too for being willing to take on a thankless job, enforcing the laws of our state. Me, personally, I don't want people speeding thru school zones or driving drunk. If everyone would just take personal responsibility andante good deisions, we wouldn't need LE, but face it, bad guys with evil intentions abound need to be stopped.
Sure some folks are going to have negative interactions with LE. That's the nature of their line of work. Let's not get too riled up over a little traffic stop.
I've seen the TH posters here minimizing environmental damage at mar vista, cutting 1.5 acres of trees as "a few shrubs". So in that spirit, really, this was just a traffic stop. No one got a ticket, no one got hurt.
I've had a few interactions with LE and each and every time I was polite, cooperative and respectful, and in return, was treated fairly.
Hopefully people clan wise up and be more neighborly.
Folks here need to pick up the Bible and read, especially the 10 commandments. Let's all try to treat out neighbors better. We are in this together.
Thank you Gordy and Felix. I know you have some public detractors but keep up the good work and may God bless you and your families.
When people refer to the FOSJ as an "environmental organization", we need to make a point of stopping the conversation and correcting the characterization. An environmental organization? Not a chance. A for-profit racketeering organization dedicated to pursuing the interests of a wealthy few? Absolutely. A sham charitable organization dedicated to turning the San Juans into a theme park for 1%ers from Seattle? Certainly. A misguided group using fake science to pursue questionable ends? Yeah, sort of. A terrorist organization bent on using any means necessary to destroy the middle class of San Juan county? Arguably. But don't let them get away with referring to themselves as an environmental organization. Where their goals overlap with true environmentalism, it's only happenstance.
ReplyDeleteDavid Hume- well said!
ReplyDeleteIn other news, Fukushima radiation has arrived on the west coast of Canada earlier than expected.
ReplyDeleteLarger update here: Putting Fukushima in Perspective.
Fukushima - counterpoint, by actual scientists instead of conspiracy wackjobs:
ReplyDeletehttp://deepseanews.com/2013/11/true-facts-about-ocean-radiation-and-the-fukushima-disaster/
Could do with a few more like this one: off-grid congressman
ReplyDelete@10:15
ReplyDeleteAnd your counter point uses phrases like "only a 10x increase in radiation" and "I secretly fangirl squeal when I walk by their offices."
Wow. Powerhouse counterpoint. Where did you find this? Huffington post?
http://shiftwa.org/liberal-lie-1-republicans-secret-rich-conservative-donors-democrats-depend-grassroots-supporters/?utm_source=general&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=010614
ReplyDelete@ !:49 I believe that the well-documented and rational article posed as a counterpoint to the "OMG WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE" stuff that has been circulating apologizes for its touch of snark by explaining that the stories out there are so wacky as to make it difficult to respond without said snark. She's mad.
ReplyDeleteGetting back to Menjivar, damn right we are concerned about how our Sheriff and deputies conduct themselves. Thankfully, we are not elsewhere, and we sure don't want to be either.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.rt.com/usa/omaha-parking-police-assault-video-258/
How do we know the sheriff allowed Felix to put out his own press release, how much time did the sheriff spend investigating this probably hours, what about our states seatbelt law 30 people on a trailer small children included. Everyone knows for the last 10 years Felix has an anger issue. Back when Bill Cummings hired him. On the same note everyone knows the truck driver has anger issues and has been in and out of jail. This is an issue blown out of proportion by the press. We need to give Nou a chance it will take him a while to repair what sheriff Cummings built. Get a scanner and listen to the calls the deptys respond to regularly, theres a dog pooping in my yard, a deer is eating my flowers, I heard gun shots somewhere, my neighbor is building a ugly fence, the sheriff department also responds to a lot of ems calls especially since san juan ems needs to be paged out 2 or 3 times befor they respond. The sheriff cant just fire and hire at will there is a process. Befor we vote in Krebs maybe we should look at his not so good work record. In the speed case those orders were handed down from our prosecutor who on his way to work on the ferry from orcas had a conversation with Stephanie buffum we have bigger things to worry about such as the cao and the friends of the san juans All of my experiances with the sheriff office have been good and when they pulled me over I was breaking long standing state laws.
ReplyDelete@7:04 a.m.
ReplyDeleteIn case you haven't heard laws don't apply to gap-toothed trailer trash "long-time-islander" yokels who visit the local pokey on a regular basis.
And yes the FOSJ is the problem here, not the Sheriff's department so let's move on to the real issue at hand.
@12:35 AM Let's face it, the sooner that Felix is fired for misconduct and the sooner that Sheriff Nou finds himself a Seattle police position, the better for us all who pay their salaries and at the same time are required to put up with this B.S. from the Sheriff's office. Sheriff Nou, Felix, and the entire office is not to be trusted at all. They are so very unprofessional.
ReplyDeleteWell, take a look at these comments on the recent Seattle Times DHS offfice story. Wow. What a great reputation we're building here in the islands...
ReplyDeletehttp://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/reader_feedback/public/display.php?thread=936321&direction=DESC&column=rating&offset=0#post_5274329
Now if they could just get ahold of the Friday Harbor Facebook Rant and Rave page! That thing is a GOLD MINE!
@8:10 let's face it. You are jumping to conclusions based on sketchy eye witness testimony of an Alderton-esque 80 proof rant by a know blow hard. Felix is doing his job. Follow the law and you won't have any trouble.
ReplyDeleteI follow the law when I drive. Guess what. Never been pulled over.
I wonder how many times a week the SJC cops here "don't you know who I am" or "I've been I this Island my whole life and in the good ole days, we used to....."
Yeah, the good ole days. If this place was turned back over to the good ole yokels it would get logged, paved and probably a Walmart built. Probably a casino too.
If that were to happen, the dentists would all leave since there would be no teeth left.
Yokel about sums it up. Felix was right. Rob Nou is a good man and will et re elected.
Keep on fantasizing about unseating him, or in typical delusional fashion, Jamie too.
When the full story finally comes out we'll all see Mark E. Instigated the whole situation- trust the cop not the felon.
ReplyDelete@9:13 you said.."Yeah, the good ole days. If this place was turned back over to the good ole yokels it would get logged, paved and probably a Walmart built. Probably a casino too."
ReplyDeleteWhat a negative impression you have of the old islanders' awareness. It shows that you have no knowledge of who we are.
You remind me of Lovel. You think you know better and have a superior intellect that you have brought from somewhere else. So frustrating and discouraging to read your comment. And if your impression is shared by a lot of new people...it's just very sad.
Remember, all you yokels divided up your land and sold it to "outsiders"
ReplyDeleteStop Crying
Ahhhh, the Trojan Heron. It is much like Hustler. You don't want to look but you sneak a peek when you can. You know it's wrong but can't help being aroused. It isn't a true picture, rather a fantasy of what our dark sides crave.
ReplyDeleteGuilt and shame. Yet a sick perverse return again and again.
Yep. A lot like Hustler.
Lord forgive me for I have sinned.
What's wrong with Hustler?
ReplyDelete@8:21
ReplyDeleteActually I have a great knowledge about who you are.
There is I pen hostility towards anyone who wasn't born here or isn't pedigreed with generations of local inbreeding.
Everything is part of a conspiracy to implement agenda 21.
You don't want government intrusion unless your BFF signs a 17k/month lease with the Feds, then it's ok.
No I understand quite well. Your antagonistic attitude towards all outsiders and the rule of law makes those coming here, buying your subdivided land, feel less welcome.
Not not will you get the government you deserve, you will get the neighbors you deserve.
As far as being compared to Lovel, well she did beat Gordy. Her election record, even with only 1 win, is still a better record than the CAPR lawsuit records.
Sorry to ramble. I will let you get back to actively managing things. I know how well that is going.
Because of your comments, I will double my contributions to opponents of your supporters.
Lovel the Hutt's degree in self directness has been more successful than the JD of the clown representing CAPR
ReplyDelete@10:48
ReplyDeleteOh, so losing a court case, then another, then another, in spectacular fashion, then losing multiple appeals for the same stuff, in spectacular fashion somehow makes the lawyer a clown?
Think again. The lawyer is a genius. CAPR would be the clowns. I think loser would be a better word though, given their litigation track record.
Maybe instead of throwing out names like "clown" you should just stick to actively managing yourself.
It is interesting to read about the Mark McCutcheon/Felix issue and listen with both ears open.
ReplyDeleteOn one side you have Mr. McCutcheon who indeed has a history with law enforcement. His last real history with legal issues goes back to when he was in his 20's and yes, was a stupid kid. If you look into his recent history you will find a fairly clean slate as an employer and father. Based on the history I am sure that there is some friction between him and the local officials an that is to be expected.
On the other hand you have Felix. Also with a history in the cummunity. He carries a portion of respect simply because he is in law enforcement and there are those that support him. He also has a reputation as being a strong-arm type of officer. He too, has been subject to scrutiny for past actions.
Now, if you take both of those history statements and throw them out the window, what you are left with is "What happened that night?"
So take Citizen "X" doing a Christmas hayride through town with children and adults on a trailer. Include circumstances that the trailer lacked brake lights, the individuals on the trailer were not belted in, and perhaps the offense that the trailer was traveling too slow and may be obstructing traffic.
Add to that that the trailer was fully lit with lighting, the speed of the trailer was +\- 10 mph and that people in the town were joining in the event throughout town. The trailer had made numerous stops along the way prior to being stopped by the officer.
Now consider the response. Officer Y stopped the trailer en-route. Officer Y employed full use of lights and spotlights in making the stop. Officer Y engaged the driver ordering the driver to cease activity. At some point in the stop Officer Y determined that he was unable to handle the situation himself and called for assistance. With assistance present, Officer Y was physically restrained by Officer Z.
The only 2 questions I see mattering are as follows:
Did Officer X have cause to pull over the trailer?
Were Officer X's actions in executing the stop appropriate for the stop?
Based on what has been reported and even based on the statements of the officer and the sheriff, my answers would be Yes and No.
The answer to the second question is the most worrisome. The law requires that in any situation involving a person in the position of power, the level of scutiny err against the higher position of power. Citizen X may have been unpleasant, but it is Officer X's duty to respond in the least aggressive manner required to protect the officer and others safety.
My guess is that by Christmas next year someone in the court house will have sorted all this out for us.
9:52 and 10:29
ReplyDelete8:21 must have hit a tender spot. Just how "new" are you?
@11:17 said the following regarding Mcutchen
ReplyDelete"His last real history with legal issues goes back to when he was in his 20's"
Well the same could be said about Charles Manson too.
Again, I'll trust the police over a felon.
I wouldn't trust either of them. I'd ask for a review based on reports from all witnesses.
ReplyDeleteIf Nou is any kind of sheriff, this is what he is doing right now.
How many Ed Hales does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
ReplyDeleteA) Depends on how much grant money is involved
B) no amount of edhales could ever hope to accomplish anything, much less the mundane task of light bulb replacement
Or
C) The volume of drool eminsting from edhale would likely result in electrocution so it is best not to even hypothesize.
10:29 AM:
ReplyDeleteDoubling your contributions to the opponents of our supporters--who might that be? And are you well-heeled enough to make a difference?
10:48 AM Yup, losing a case in the local district court really is proof that one's position is wrong. Because we have genius judges here. Sounds like you must be one of the deposed. The ones skulking around making policy in back rooms. It was my understanding that those cases are still on appeal--did I miss something? And as recent events in SCOTUS have shown, sometimes you have to go all the way to D.C. to get your rights vindicated.
ReplyDelete11:17 AM
ReplyDeleteYour statements are all supposition. Were you there? Have you submitted a witness report? Tell us about it. And then tell us your law enforcement credentials. Because your conclusion about question B is debatable, to say the least.
@11:17 also made the statement
ReplyDelete"The law requires that in any situation involving a person in the position of power, the level of scutiny err against the higher position of power."
Could you please provide a specific citation in law that states this. I would like to read it.
Thanks.
Semantics is the study of word meaning and logic concerned with such meaning.
ReplyDeleteDirectly related is tact, or in this case being tactless. (Showing a lack of adroitness and sensitivity in dealing with others in difficult issues.)
It went badly. How could it have gone:
"I pulled you over because you have no proper tail lights and and I know you only want what is best for your hayride passengers, so I'm giving you a warning, but next Christmas I'm going to want to see proper tail lights."
This said with a smile, low key, it's a hayride and that's all it is.
Gotta love yokels burning down google searching for quotes and facts they know nothing about...funny
ReplyDelete@8:14
ReplyDeleteWell, well. I haven't been on here in a few days, and I come back, and lookie who's here! That's you again, isn't it? You're the "bless us with your brilliance guy" aren't you? I see you're just as repetitive as ever. Although, now your bingo word seems to have moved on to "yokel." Good to see you Mr. Yokel. You're spending a lot of time on here, too. There must be nothing else to do while you fantasize about Felix Menjivar. I bet your whole room is pasted over with photos of Menjivar and Nou. Remember, there's no such thing as a bad cop, just bad people. Losers, as you call them. Nice to see you again, you loser.
Hello Heronistas!
ReplyDeleteWhat we got cookin' here? We seem to be all over the place, i.e. Felix fiasco, yokel name calling even some good ol' Ed Hale bashing! My we are a little tuckered out after the holidays aren't we? That is fine.
Let us take stock. Some things have died down and for that I am thankful. Silence from the No DHS in Friday Harbor and the kinder, gentler Citizens for the Core. You had your "cause" but guess what?? Done deal! I know you hate that, but time to see the writing on the wall. You gave a good fight, I'll give you that, but this is bigger than any of us. Yeah, you even got some ink in the Seattle Times. Good on ya, but alas seems like you did not do much for our sacred image as a small, quaint fishing village to the down Sounders.
Mar Vista will shell out some bucks and probably give a nice check to the Fiends (Friends). Wow! How ya gonna handle that one?
@8:30
ReplyDeleteAs they say, if the mismatched shoes fit have your aunt- mom tie them on for you.
We wouldn't want your feet getting muddy while you walk to the library so you can use the" intrawebs " to do sum o dat googlin' on Agenda 21.
I don't know Officer Menjivar or the man driving the truck so I don't have any preconceived bias about this issue. I don't have a problem with a LEO (law enforcement officer) pulling over a vehicle with defective taillights, especially a trailer full of people (everyone should know that it's illegal for people to ride in a trailer) at night. That part of it I think would REQUIRE any LEO to make the stop. It's what happened during the stop that really concerns me. There is an expectation that a police officer that is trained to deal with difficult situations will not only be able to handle confrontational people, but also their own actions in stressful encounters. From the reports of people that were there the officer had to be physically restrained from attacking the driver by his fellow officer apparently over something said by the driver. Makes me wonder what would have happened if the second officer wasn't there. If a LEO can't control his anger in verbal confrontations with citizens then it would make sense to me for the protection of not only the public, but also for the officer to be reassigned to duty that doesn't involve those types of situations.
ReplyDelete@8:13 Mr. Yokel
ReplyDelete"As they say" you are better at calling people names than making a point, but you're not even that good at calling people names.
Here's a point,
ReplyDeleteThe number of years residung in any one place does not absolve one from the requirements of any law, nor does it make one's opinion sacrosant.
Here is another,
The idiotic term 'actively manage" obviously doesn't apply to any council member, nor has it ever.
Last point,
Blathering on anonymous blogs does not influence decision-maker's thoughts or actions because they are too easily dismissed as coming from the fringe-council chambers filled with citizens does, and is why the FOSJ wins and the "yokels" lose.
@3:46 Mr. Yokel
ReplyDeleteThose aren't points, Mr. Yokel, those are your opinions, which we've heard over and over and over again. And over again. And again. Blahdy blah blahdy blah. And again. Your opinions, as we all know by now, are pointless, but you have the repetition and redundancy thing down.
Tell me, Mr. Yokel, what is the point of commenting on a blog that no one pays any attention to?
I don't know about council members listening to an anonymous blog, but no one is listening to you anymore, except for me. "Listen" would be an exaggeration, honestly. I'm just counting how many times you repeat yourself since I have a friendly wager now about how many times you post with the same unoriginal content every day.
Care to share any more great "points" with us? Oh, let me guess what they might be, please! If I begged you, would you tell us?
"Yokel" A bumpkin, peasant, country cousin, etc.
ReplyDeleteI'm happy this neglected pre-pubescent turd found a word to define the rest of us and also to give us warning to not waste time reading noxious crap spewed forth.
Is it you, Mr. Hale?
Please go back under your extremely comfortable rock.
Let the rest of us end this nonsense by not responding...yes I admit I'm guilty of tiring of this person who so obviously needs full psychiatric, but let us try to stick to issues, God knows there are plenty of important ones.
Anyone here going to join the Rand Paul Class action lawsuit against the NSA?
ReplyDeleteWondering if folks from both sides could get behind a national candidate like this. I know he is somewhat stigmatized (to some) by having an R in front of his name, but he seems willing to buck the establishment...
Just pondering.
Yes it is repetitive, because repetition is the lowest educational strategy save for conditioning, and since I can't stick all the yokels in a Skinner Box repetition is whay you get.
ReplyDeleteGet out from behind your anonymous blog and actually DO something, otherwise STFU.
Yokel is an appropriate label, only yokels blather and bleet about fantastical conspiracy theories like Agenda 21, or Bilderburgers, or Illuminati, or any other bogeyman they can conjure up over rounds of Rainier.
Mr. Yokel
ReplyDeleteI'm not following. You'll have to repeat yourself some more because I'm just not getting it. Tell me about those conspiracies. I'd really like to hear. Btw, what does "whay" mean. Or STFU?
Tell me what Agenda 21 is. What are the Illuminati? The Bilderburgers? Who is Skinner? Is she a Bilderburger?
Are they the people behind the Christmas hay ride almost-massacre?
Mr. Yokel walks into a bar. He says to the bartender, "Wanna hear a joke?"
ReplyDeleteBartender: "No, not really."
Mr. Yokel: "Don't you like jokes?"
Bartender: "It's not that - I just don't want to hear it 10 times."
Mr. Yokel walks out of a bar.
ReplyDeleteHey, it COULD happen.
On Christmas Eve, a local bumps into Mr. Yokel in Friday Harbor and says, "Can you tell me where they hayride's at?"
ReplyDeleteAfter threatening to call Officer Menjivar, Mr. Yokel says, "I'll tell you where the hayride is if you rephrase that question so that it doesn't end in a preposition."
The local says, "Okay, can you tell me where the hayride's at -- asshole!"
Ask not what your heron can do for you, but ask what can you do for your heron.
ReplyDeleteThis site has really gone down hill and is becoming laughable. They should just shut it down.
ReplyDeleteAnd so it appears no one can can have a conversation location where all are welcome.
ReplyDeleteI was one of those who was unhappy when the NEW Island Guardian refused to run letters and info from all.
The TH has broken new ground with a commitment to unregulated discourse. Now we have this large problem where those who have been subject to public ridicule and in many instances legitimate criticism have decided the best thing for them to do is attack the site and make it look kooky.
Of course it would be refreshing if anyone ever took a look in the mirror and resolved to do better.
But it is not to be. We will continue to have those who will make the effort to make the TH as low life as possible.
And I think we are torn between freedom for anyone to F-bomb and civil discourse, and those who's effort is to make the TH look extremely nuts.
Maybe the IG is right; but I hope not.
Go hawks!
ReplyDeleteUnregulated commentary is not so much the problem of this web-site as stories and accusations that are not fact-checked,or the full story is known but for the purpose of driving an agenda are conveniently left out, as well as those who would find fault with everything and anything, a bogeyman behind every door, and yet offer no real solution other than driving off those who they perceive as not "real islanders" or empty sayings like "actively managing" councilmen.
ReplyDeleteThe TH is needed, and valuable, but I would implore the TH to tell the whole story, truthfully, not just part of one to drive an agenda because to do so is to be no better than the FOSJ.
As to the commentators, bring some real solutions to the table, and become actively involved without the angst-what is it you want? If it is to be "just left alone" that's fine but what does that mean? No law? Some Law? No enforcement?
Deal in reality, Washington State has adopted the building code, a shoreline master plan, and the Growth Management Act, this community and it's leaders cannot simply tell the state to piss-off, well it could but then tax revenue from the state would be cut off which means school funding and other programs that do have value.
The state can also force the county to stop issuing building permits, and while many of you think that would be great it also means you wouldn't be able to get financing to build a house, nor insurance.
So come to the table with some knowledge and solutions that are reasonable.
@10:09
ReplyDeleteYou have a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of the local community versus the state with regard to compliance of the laws you mention. Be that as it may, there is no requirement at any level of government to protect the environment from something that does not threaten the environment. We are legally required to protect the environment from things that harm it -- once that harm passes some de minimis threshold. We are not required to satisfy the psychological or self-interested views of harm that exist only in your head or the heads (and wallets) of the Friends.
Your facts are wrong. Your opinions are wrong too, but you will never understand because you possess no self-restraint and would force us to comply with every regulatory whim rammed down our throat as long as it comports with your preconceived notion that the planet and the San Juans are dying. Bureaucratic dreaming on the part of State and local agencies is not the law, no matter how much you fervently wish that it were and no matter how desperately you wish that everything people do should be illegal.
In short, if you are already causing no harm (and thereby complying with the law), you cannot be forced to take any old measure that a bureaucrat tells you to. Bureaucrats interpret the law, often incorrectly, and pursue an agenda that satisfies their bureaucracy instead of serving their legal mission. Their word is not the law. Don't think the "Department of Ecology" is the law. It is no more the law than any rogue cop.
ReplyDeleteThe point, above all else, is that even the Department of Ecology, even our Sheriff's Department, even the Friends, and even our own incomprehensible local government, must follow the law too. The law says that if we aren't doing anything, leave us alone.
So once again, someone, @10:09 presents a well laid out, fact based, non profanity laden point of view, counter to some of the TH thinking, and they are immediately pounced on and labeled as "wrong", and "having a fundamental misunderstanding".
ReplyDeleteBasically @12:09 and @12:20 are acting like children on a playground, covering their ears and yelling "I CAN'T HEAR YOU" and "NUH-UH" and "YOU CAN'T MAKE ME".
Someone tries to bring good discussion to what has essentially become an unwelcoming echo chamber and they are denounced and pounced upon.
I sincerely hope that @12:20 does not practice law because the flaws in your last statement run so deep...
@12:20 says "The point, above all else, is that even the Department of Ecology, even our Sheriff's Department, even the Friends, and even our own incomprehensible local government, must follow the law too."
Have you ever heard of sovereign immunity?
Regarding our Sheriff's Department. Well, here are a few examples: if they are on a call or in pursuit, guess what, they don't have to obey the speed limit. You know those signs on the door to the tavern that says possession of a firearm is not allowed? Guess what, the cops don't have to obey those laws either.
@2:32
ReplyDeleteYou are really grasping at red herring straws when you bring up "sovereign immunity," especially when you misapply it.
Yes, the government is subject to laws, and sovereign immunity is not without (very strict) limits and cannot be exercised in its own right to cover up wrong doing.
@2:37
ReplyDelete"misapply it" ??
All it was was a question, no application. The original poster was speaking absolutes and I was trying to illustrate that it is not as absolute as they make it seem.
Now I am labeled as "grasping" and reference to "red herring straws" what ever the heck that is.
Again, illustrating the point that when someone attempts to speak here on the TH, they are attacked if it doesn't fit the narrow TH line. It's not really the free open discussion that is being touted.
Sorry for trying to speak up. I guess I will keep quiet and let those with a louder voice prevail in this forum.
@2:56
ReplyDeleteYou applied it by giving examples that are out of left field. You also mocked the previous commenters, so don't play the victim when you get what you give.
I don't want to speak for TH, but I recall TH saying several times that it isn't for everyone.
Have a nice time somewhere else. Your valuable commentary will be missed.
I can confirm that the TH is most definitely not for everyone. I hope the level of discourse improves from recent levels, but it seems obvious to me that certain recent regular commenters are deliberately trying to lower the level of discourse.
ReplyDeleteThis too shall pass. In the meantime, TH will upgrade this year to a new platform with increased functionality in several key areas, including new functionality related to comments. We will always allow anonymous comments, but we will provide additional forums for people to converse in a more congenial atmosphere, should they so choose.
We will also provide additional sections for data and information. We'll add one or two new columnists as well.
Stay tuned, and thanks for putting up with the growing pains.
Grange Town Meeting about ALl these Felix issues....um, wait, at the last town (Skagot College) with the Sheriff, all we got is, "No Comment...if you have an issue with an officer, come talk to me personally." Well, THAT didn't work!!!
ReplyDeleteGrange Town Meeting about ALl these Felix issues....um, wait, at the last town (Skagot College) with the Sheriff, all we got is, "No Comment...if you have an issue with an officer, come talk to me personally." Well, THAT didn't work!!!
ReplyDelete@ January 1, 2014 at 2:05 AM
ReplyDelete"Couldn't agree more. I'd like to know the same thing. Where is the Rick Hughes moderated community meeting about Menjivar with Rob Nou in attendance?
Answer: The LAST TIME we had a community meeting with Rob Nou, he stuffed us. LOTS of complaints about Felix...and what did Rob say? "Come see me personally" THAT HELPED. Not.
Election year is THIS year. The Sheriff spot is a no-Nou. Don't let him slide this issue under the rug -- please! Felix needs de-escalation training and an anger management class - the guy carries a GUN!!!
Now that we can read the detailed reports of Deputy Menjivar and Deputy Korth from the night of Christmas Eve, the actions of the driver and his bigoted, antagonistic response to authority are clear. This incident was handled appropriately by our Sheriff's office. The driver should apologize for stirring this up.
ReplyDelete@6:10
ReplyDeleteYou mean now that the backdated unoriginal reports have been released.
Felix is super
ReplyDelete@7:41
ReplyDeleteYou didn't complete the sentence. Is the final word in your sentence,
A. Prejudiced
B. Right(eous)
C. In Trouble
D. Angry
E. All of the above
Sorry not to respond sooner or finish my sentence yesterday, but I went to FHHS so I must be one of the small group of loud people here the law doesn't apply to. Final answer --- E. And should be debagged and radished
ReplyDelete